3: Where's Home Really... for Big Zuu?

Jimi Famurewa  
Welcome to Where's Home Really? with me, Jimi Famurewa, the podcast that really gets under the skin of some amazing guests and the experiences, places and people that have made them. It's a show about culture, identity and heritage. And it's a space where these well known names can really open up about who they are, and where they find that elusive, ever shifting sense of belonging. Every episode, I'm going to ask my guests to tell me how they define the idea of home. And I'm going to do this by asking them about four key elements. After we finished, I'm pretty sure I'll know a lot more about them. And I think you will, too. Those four elements are a person, a place, a phrase, and a plate. So for me one of these would be a five aside football cage, specifically one in Abbey Wood in Southeast London where I grew up. Every time I see one of those it just reminds me of amazing last summers growing up and although we wouldn't have called that community just being out with so many different people. But enough about me, let's hear from today's fantastic guest.

Big Zuu  
I said it in a song I gave Harry Redknapp plantain. I made him eat scotch bonnet. The man that fielded the most black players in history in football. Grew up with African players. No one said yo here's some akara? Here's some garri. Here's something. That was my ting. I made Harry Redknapp eat scotch bonnet.

Jimi Famurewa  
Today's guest is the UK rapper and TV personality Big Zuu. He started making music and emceeing on the grime scene in his teens, and has worked with the best in the business; the likes of JME and P Money, as well as his cousin AJ Tracy. But it's his BAFTA winning cooking show, Big Zuu's Big Eats that has taken his talents to a whole new audience. That show has also led to acting work in the Dave sitcom Sneakerhead and a recent appearance as a guest judge on Gordon Ramsay's next level chef. Born in the UK and of Sierra Leonean and Lebanese heritage, he grew up on the Mozart Estate in West London, a place that's an integral part of his story. Big Zuu, my guy, welcome. How was that as an intro man. Titles titles like you were Khaleesi or something. I was really going for it? Where are you man? You seem like you seem cosy.

Big Zuu  
I'm in my games room, we got to look all set up with the computer I've got big, massive computer that I know have no idea what it does. I just went online and spent all my money. Yeah, I feel like this room is like the epitome of what I wish I had when I was growing up. So it's sick to be here. Now. I'm like doing my thing. And like, Thank God, everything's good. But sometimes like, when I went up purchase stuff. I'm like, I don't know if I'm allowed to do that.

Jimi Famurewa  
Right. Okay. That's interesting.

Big Zuu  
Like even though there's literally nothing stopping me, I'll still be like, still think about 16 times. And is it the right decision?

Jimi Famurewa  
I think I can relate. And I want to dig into that one as well. But I always start off with the show title, with that question. When you hear somebody ask you where's home really? What are the first things that come to mind? And how does it make you feel?

Big Zuu  
I guess there's two things definitely, like Mozart where I grew up, and it's probably just Sierra Leone like Sierra Leone is where my mum's from. It's where my dad was born like my whole family is from Sierra Leone. So I think that's probably a couple of the first things that come to mind. Yeah.

Jimi Famurewa  
Have both those things always had equal sway? Has Sierra Leone like come to the fore a little bit more? I know that you were you were there very recently. And like when we've spoken previously, I've just got a sense of, of that pride in the homeland in that way and properly engaging in that, that it gives you so much.

Big Zuu  
100%. I always was connected to Sierra Leone as well, it's where my mum's from but I never really understood how much my family kind of like, come from there. You know, my whole entire family are from there. Yeah, everything about me is from there.

Jimi Famurewa  
I'm always interested in the extent to which, you know, you can tell yourself, oh, no, I'm a Londoner. But then, you know, the West African jumps out at surprising moments. Are there particular character traits or things that you think of in yourself that you think oh, wow, I understand now why I'm like that, well, that comes from Sierra Leonean culture or that kind of that home.

Big Zuu  
When I cuss and argue and shout and scream. I know it's direct from Salone people one thing they say is sabbi cos. Sabbi means understand. Yeah. Sabbi cos that's how they are. They're very like got a hot mouth. They'll say everything that comes to their mind. And I always wondered like, why am I so off the cuff with it? Like, I'm so good at cussing people. It comes from my Salone roots.

Jimi Famurewa  
We've spoken about a phrase, and I love that phrase. So let's land on that straightaway. Is there a phrase for you? Is it that phrase? What's your choice of the of the word or piece of language that best encapsulates or makes you think of home? Whatever that may be?

Big Zuu  
Well, for Salone, how the body is how you say, how are you? Yeah, but it's that how the body is just so like, English but it's not. It just really defines what Creole is, Creole is a very laid back language. And the reply to how the body is the body fine. That's how we speak Creole. But today, I think that language, that's just some Pidgin, I'm not about that. It's not Pidgin, we're not Nigerian. It's actually his own whole entire thing. And I think if we're speaking about the ends probably it's probably saying wagwan? Like man's not Jamaican, but I say wagwan every day, every sentence like wagwan is also like emotional, like something's going on you'll be like wagwan bro?

Jimi Famurewa  
Yeah, it can have multiple meanings with who you say it to, how you say it. And I love that you gave two answers, because it's like both sides of yourself. And it feels like that's a really important part of your story. A lot of people maybe not the first time that they would have been made aware of you. But certainly the pivotal moment in recent memory was winning two BAFTAs, we have to remind people, in 2022. And as much for the awards it was the speech you gave and the way that you deliberately and pointedly placed yourself in context and talked about how you came to the country. Like it's been a little while since you made that statement. How do you kind of reflect on it and the kind of the impact that it's had?

Big Zuu  
The speech almost felt more important than the BAFTA itself. It was like, I never knew how important that moment would be. And I maybe should have planned a bit more because I definitely freestyled it. But thank God I'm good at freestyling.

Jimi Famurewa  
You've been training for years.

Big Zuu  
I've been training lyrically for that moment, I've been prepping my whole life, bro. I think the impact is what really, really spun me I did like man's on road and people are like you Oh, that speech touched me. Right. And someone told me they watched it. They watch it every morning.

Jimi Famurewa  
Oh, wow. Wow.

Big Zuu  
On a motivational one. I was like, I'm not Barack Obama. Okay. I'll take it. Everything happened beautifully. Even the way my mum came on stage last. So that was the last thing I saw before I started speaking. So I just go and thank my mum, lady right there at the end. And it made me just go home. Let me talk about where I'm from. Then I look at Tubsey and Hyder and say where they're from. Iraq, Kurdistan. When I said that I'm like what am I trying to get out of this. What am I trying to say? And it just led to me saying I come from humble beginnings. And then I remember like, taking that pause, looking around the room everyone's clapping. And I just thought I'd say something that that is going to affect telly a little bit because that's what I wanted to do. That's the whole point. Me winning a BAFTA affects telly. You know, and me saying that, we want to see more working class people in telly. Because I was gonna say black people. I've realised more than ever. The first two fights there's the fight for like race. I mean, it's more than two fights, there's a lot of fights, but there's the fight for race and then the fight for class are so interlinked. And in telly the disconnect between race is as similar as the disconnect between class. The representation of people in telly is mental in terms of like diversity like it's getting there. It's getting better maybe people being put on screen people like me winning BAFTAs things like that. But then you look at the class side, and it's a completely different conversation. In terms of like being represented in like higher positions of power in television is very, very low.

Jimi Famurewa  
There's work to be done definitely. Paint a picture. What were your first homes like? You talked on the BAFTA stage about your mum literally being pregnant with you and leaving Sierra Leone at time of civil war? And that made for quite a chaotic arrival and like your early years were a little bit kind of coloured by that circumstance. But what your early memories of it? What were your first homes like?

Big Zuu  
I know my mum would be fascinated by where she lived in Victoria with a friend. We went to Battersea and Battersea was alright, like my dad was supporting my mum from Sierra Leone sending money over, my mum was working. Then my dad and my mum split up. By the time I was three, things just flipped up. Moved out of Battersea, starting living with one of my uncles. We left there was in a bed and breakfast. Left that went to a hotel, which is for refugees. It was like a temporary spot before you would get housed by the council. So no one's just stayed there for like maybe three to six months. We ended up doing about two, two and a half years in this place, and I used to share a room with my mum. Those times there even though he was tough, and it wasn't easy. I had great people around me young people around me that were all in the same position as me. So we used to just have a lot of fun to like, hide the pain. And I got so many memories of them times, like growing up there. And then we got temporary housing in West London in Mozart. So living just off the estate, like that's where I spent most of my childhood. Yeah, I remember the first time mum let me go play football in a local park. She actually like stayed and watched. She was like to the kids don't fight my son. Because I will come back to this park. And I remember looking at them like you're going to hurt me aren't you?

Jimi Famurewa  
I love your mom's idea that this is gonna help if I just

Big Zuu  
Yeah, if I tell them don't do anything to him. Surely, they won't steal my son's phone. There's this bidding system with the council where you have a bid for a house. So they started offering us like random houses in the middle of nowhere. Like, you're like, No, no, no. And then I found this one house. I bid for it. I was like 14. And my mum never knew. But I accepted it. 

Jimi Famurewa  
You're doing this at 14?

Big Zuu  
My mum is a classic African woman. I'm not doing it's my son can do it. So she she didn't know. But I bidded for this house. And we got accepted. So my mom gets a letter just saying, Come view your new property. And she's like, What?Had no idea what's going on. But she went there saw the house. And she was like, wow, gave her the keys straightaway. I remember I had to stay in the house. It was empty. I had to sit in there for a day on the floor waiting for everything. And I remember that story. I just remember like, sitting there being like, Yo, this is the change.

Jimi Famurewa  
Did it feel it in that moment that that was kind of the first time that okay, you know, literally from the moment of your mum kind of arriving and then that initial change of circumstances when things broke down between her and your dad like. Did that feel like okay, we can we can breathe, you know, the situation has changed.

Big Zuu  
Yeah, it felt like it was obviously moving away from my local area was sad. I was like, I didn't want to leave the ends. And I was still in secondary school. So it was long, I'm like right I'm gonna leave the ends and have to take this long route to get to school every day. Yeah, but it was the first time we got a permenant house. Living temporary is dead. You never know what's gonna come never know what's gonna happen. Council's not amazing. Things go wrong all the time.

Jimi Famurewa  
Yeah, well, again, you know, just to go back to that idea of where we find home or where we feel secure. Like if it's literally temporary. And all you've known is things that are ever changing. Like, how can you feel like you're on solid ground? Like how can you? How can you relax?

Big Zuu  
Obviously, don't me wrong, like, when you're young, these kind of things are not too much in your head, but they definitely have an impact. And like even just being told, okay, you gotta sign up to this website to bid for a house. Yeah, there's no like, easier process. Why do we have to do bidding wars? Yeah, like, because I was a young kid that was a little bit small and techy. I just bidded for everything to increase our points. But let's say your son isn't or let's say your daughter isn't or, or let's say you don't have kids who don't have access to a computer like that. And you have to go and go to a internet cafe to bid for your house.

Jimi Famurewa  
Let's talk about your place, then we've been talking about a lot of different places, I can see that there's going to be a lot of options.

Big Zuu  
I mean, it's definitely going to be Freetown, Sierra Leone. But it's become my home more over time. You know, growing up with my mum and my dad and the fact that my mum and dad split up. I used to always be like, Yeah, I'm from Sierra Leone. And then my dad's from Lebanon, but it's only the older I got, I realised that my dad and his whole family were born in Sierra Leone. They are Sierra Leoneans. They have Lebanese heritage. Like both my parents were born in Sierra Leone, both of their grandparents were born in Sierra Leone. And so I am from Sierra Leone. That's it. Like if you talk about definition, like I'm not Lebanese, I'm Lebanese by heritage but in terms of like, where I'm actually from, I'm from Sierra Leone. I'm a British man that's from Sierra Leone.

Jimi Famurewa  
Your father's side, their Lebanese heritage will be through the prism of Sierra Leone, won't it and like, you know, there's obviously huge Lebanese diaspora in like Nigeria as well.

Big Zuu  
West Africa. Yeah, I definitely understand my Lebanese culture. My Lebanese roots. But like, my whole life is in Sierra Leone. My dad, when he talks he sounds like an African man he doesn't sound like a Lebanese man that's Arabic. But in Africa, he is not accepted as African. And that's because of the relationship between the Lebanese and the Sierra Leoneans. This is very rocky there's a lot of bad blood in terms of like the way people have been used and the way people have been abused.

Jimi Famurewa  
Yeah of course. So Freetown. That's the place.

Big Zuu  
That's me, man. That's me. That's me to a tee. That's my nature who I am, my personality. Everything about me all comes from that. I never knew that. Yeah, I never knew that. Obviously, going back to a couple months ago really showed me. But yeah, I didn't really know. Yo, I'm fiery and over the top and confident because of these people. When I see two people going crazy on the street shouting at each other. I'm like, that's why I'm good at clashing and grime. That's the reason why I can send for people and write bars about them.

Jimi Famurewa  
I want to talk about your beginnings in music. But I wanted to just touch on foods just briefly because yeah, all throughout these experiences and I'm thinking of you as the 14 year old who's like, you know, spread betting for for different properties and changing your family's living circumstances through your facility with with computers and stuff. Were you also quite mature in taking over in the kitchen. Were you interested from an early age in cooking and being self sufficient in that way? And what sort of dishes were the things that you were really drawn to?

Big Zuu  
The first thing I remember cooking I said this story quite a lot. Is mum was pregnant. She was boiling tortellini. Yeah, she didn't read the packet. So she thought he had to cook it the same amount of time as fresh pasta. I read the packet it said boil for two minutes. Oh, I sat there pondering two minutes why two minutes? Actually, you know what makes sense mum's one's really soggy. It doesn't soak up the sauce and also bursts. The pocket of that little spinach ricotta which you'd buy from Sainsbury's, would always burst and go into the boiling water. And I used to always be like this is not- it shouldn't taste like this. I never had tortellini anywhere else. So I didn't have anything to compare it to. But I used to watch a lot of like, Sunday Brunch, Saturday Kitchen, Rick Stein all these people going around food food food. So I remember them talking about al dente, boiling pasta less. So I remember I just said one day you know what I want to do it. Boil it for two minutes, heat up the sauce in the microwave. Mix it together. Add hella cheese. Gave it to my mum. And she was like, This is not cooked. I said, Hey, I took the packet out the bin, pointed at the two minute I said look, says boil for two minutes mum. She was um, okay. I can tell I defeated her. But it wasn't enough. The more I told the story, the more I realised that at first I thought it was just cooking helping out round the house. You know, I wanted to be I wanted to be a good youth. But it was that satisfaction of proving my mum wrong.

Jimi Famurewa  
Right. That was the drive. That was your thing. That was what you were chasing?

Big Zuu  
It was yeah. It was my mum, classic, very strict, very, always one step ahead. But with that tortellini, I was the guy. And it gave me a power that was like, sometimes with West African parents. They are very, very controlling in terms of your knowledge. My mum would have big conversation with her friends in the living room. I'll be there trying to get involved talking about politics or stuff in life. I'll be there like, Yeah, this is what I think and they all turn round and look at me like, you are 12. Your point is irrelevant. You know, I mean, and it's not obviously not black and white.

Jimi Famurewa  
That's another thing that like really spans a lot of cultures. And I've seen like Lenny Henry, talk about in Caribbean cultures. It's like, oh, this is big people's business. And like, this idea of always being shooed away as a child is something that I really relate to as well. It's strange, isn't it? Because I think on the one hand, you're really self sufficient. Because you know, maybe that comes from a class thing. And if you've got working parents and you have to be able to look after yourself, but then on the other, like, there's a sort of babying isn't there there's a kind of like, oh, you can't do that. You don't know what you're doing anything. And I think it feels quite telling that it was pasta that was the thing that you could like, that you can have your mastery, right because I imagine if you were like, okay, Mum, I'm cooking the Jollof I'm cooking the stew tonight you would you you wouldn't last very long.

Big Zuu  
I'm still trying to perfect that one right now. But yeah one million per cent. I never thought would be tortellini that broke that down.

Jimi Famurewa  
Welcome back to Where's Home Really? with me Jimi Famurewa where my guest is Big Zuu. Let's talk about your plate as we're talking about food, what dish are you going to go for that really encapsulates, crystallises that yearning for home or that that feeling of home?

Big Zuu  
I would say it's okra soup.

Jimi Famurewa  
So with okra stew with fufu, talk us through it, explain for those that are uninitiated.

Big Zuu  
So okra obviously they also call it ladyfingers it's a green slimy veg. You can even have it whole or you slice it down. A lot of African dishes start with like a tomato base, boiled meat stock all coming together with a vegetable so whether it's cassava leaf or if it's the sour sour or whatever it's ground nut you know peanut butter. It's always the same even Jollof is typically onions, tomatoes.

Jimi Famurewa  
The sauce starts it all.

Big Zuu  
Scotch bonnet exactly. Yeah, and that's what okra is, okra is a tomato based with lamb or whatever. The Lebanese are a little bit like we don't want that. We just want to add some olive oil. So the okra that my mum used to make because she would make two types she'll make the easy oil beef or lamb. Yeah. Then you got the real African, palm oil, dried shrimp, cow foot, sheep belly.

Jimi Famurewa  
Yeah, take the training wheels off playing on hard mode.

Big Zuu  
Food that comes from fermented cassava that's been boiled and so much depth.

Jimi Famurewa  
There's a lot going on. Yeah.

Big Zuu  
So I used to love it because like, let's say after school, I might have the humble one. So weekend family coming over the big palm oil one and yeah, I remember one time I begged my grandma may she rest in peace I begged my granny to make it for me. I choked on a bone. A barracuda does some fishing and choked on a barracuda bone. I thought I was gonna die. And I remember they came over they were like eat rice eat rice eat rice. So I was choking and they're making me eat rice. I'll never forget it because I didn't die. I'm still here. Rice.

Jimi Famurewa  
The solution to everything is more rice. When we were talking a little bit earlier about you know starting off and having those little epiphanies about cooking times and with the tortellini it made me think of the fact that there's obviously a lot of assumed knowledge like throughout food media throughout the food world. And I wondered for you stepping into that zone. How has it been in terms of you know, you bring so much that is underrepresented to that world but is there a sense of feeling like you're being tested and all Do you know this dish or Don't you know that or Haven't you had that before? And kind of how have you kind of navigated that side of things.

Big Zuu  
At first I felt like there was a pressure for me to know more coming on different shows and even when people stopped me in a sheet but people talk to me about food, but food is forever evolving. There's so much roots and I read that there's this dish in Mexico that is a taco but I think it's a taco that they make with like a pork shawarma

Jimi Famurewa  
Pastor yeah

Big Zuu  
Comes from Lebanese people going to Mexico. What? Yeah, well, I mean with that story, it sounds super random. What I mean is that you're always learning. I feel like with food the pressure to know it all is false because I'm proud in the fact that West Africa is my is my choice of weapon. You know, I get a lot of people that have been like Yo, man, thank you. I never seen someone made Jollof on this. Never seen someone like this on the screen. And you know, I'm trying to be as authentic as possible. You know, you can never you can't please everyone. But the more I grow in food more I'm able to have conversations and I feel like the Saturday Kitchens is the moment that I feel that the most because you're with your with other guest chefs who may have restaurants. Critically acclaimed, who are coming to do their dish live on telly. And them I'm there like. Bam. Man's gonna cook this. And I'm looking at Matt like you alright bro? And you know what's funny at first when I met that brother I thought I'm gonna hate this guy. This conservative man. But you know, through the connection of food. And every time the more I've gone onto that show, every time I've gone in there I've seen like his heart grow fonder, eyes open wider, because at first it's like You ain't a chef. You won't be here later. You ain't doing a Saturday Kitchen 2. But then by the time you've done four or five, it's like, I felt more secure in myself as a chef, because I know I could go on I don't have to be like everyone else. I could just go there and be me.

Jimi Famurewa  
Yeah, that sense of opening up and like understanding is almost certainly what is happening on people's sofas and people are hearing about this. And I think you, you do so much by going into those spaces and just being yourself and, and I really want to hit on your person. So who is the person that gives you that sense of being yourself, moving into these spaces, and also remembering where you came from. Who have you gone for?

Big Zuu  
It has to be my mum. My mum's identity in terms of her being from Sierra Leone and you know, leaving the country during the rebel war coming over here, was about 27. And ever since then, she's been she's 54 now so lot of her life has been outside of Sierra Leone. My mum is a snapshot of what Salone used to be before the war, the way she talks the way she thinks about it, her ideology. Even when my mum speaks Creole, this is old school, your old school Salone. She sees Salone how it used to be, you know, this beautiful part of West Africa. She wasn't there in the war so she never got see the devastation. We've been back so she knows what's going on. But a lot of people that are from Salone now, one of the most used sayings in Salone is Eh Salone. Eh Salone. Bloody England. They say that a lot.

Jimi Famurewa  
And I love that you've chosen your mum like that idea of her being a link to something that maybe doesn't even exist anymore, like a poem or an idea that, that you kind of carry with you. And you can be inspired by and look to, uh, you know, she represents this kind of beauty and hope that that doesn't necessarily exist in the same way. And that's absolutely beautiful. We've not really spoken about music too much, which seems mad because you are kind of stepping back into music mode, it seems I mean, maybe that's the wrong way to put it. Do you feel that you do kind of consciously switch between the two things? How do you see the balance?

Big Zuu  
Telly is a job. Yeah. Music is my life. Being a chef.and making food. It's also my life. But the way you put out music and the way you put out your love for food is very different. Yeah. You know, like, if I had a restaurant and I was writing recipes, and I was doing that, then I would say yeah, I'm a food man. But I'm a telly man I cook food on telly. So telly is very nine to five telly is wake up call time nine o'clock get home. Music isn't like that music is forever going on. I just facilitate my music around my job. And last year, I took a complete break. I said you know what? I'm gonna just focus on working and take a break from music for the first time in my life. And it felt good.

Jimi Famurewa  
Feel like I'm talking to someone like an addict trying to quit like yeah,

Big Zuu  
I felt good man. It felt good to like have a little breather, just listen to music. Rather than focusing on the competition, and music is constantly a battle of what's coming up how you planning it what's going on. So I got to be able to get out of that loop. Yeah. And I feel like I'm blessed because telly's put me in a position where financially I'm not like straining music to make me money, which is what I was doing as a creative you know, you do all this crazy stuff and you have fun, but you also have to be mindful that I got bills to pay. Whereas now it's like, that's covered by telly. So I can purely do music for the love of the art course I want to make money from music course I wanted to stream and do shows and get plaques but that's not the sole purpose. The sole purpose is as an outlet for fun. Yeah, so now I've come back I'm like, ready to just do everything and I'm 10 years into my art history now. Thank you, man. I've done my I've done my 10,000 hours.

Jimi Famurewa  
Yeah, probably 20,000. So we're talking about your culture, and the varying sort of manifestations of it, but how was your culture - and you can choose whichever one you'd like of Lebanese or London or Sierra Leonean - how has that had a positive wider impact on like the world? Like be it through the art, food, attitudes, sayings, whatever, like what what are some of the things that come to mind?

Big Zuu  
I definitely feel like with what I've done with Salone food represents West Africa. Yeah, in a way that it's not an argument about who's got the best jollof. I said it in a song I gave Harry Redknapp plantain. I made him eat scotch bonnet. The man that fielded the most black players in history in football. Grew up with African players. No one said yo here's some akara? Here's some garri. Here's something. That was my ting. I made Harry Redknapp eat scotch bonnet. And there was a time I made jollof arancini balls. And I said, Did I gentrify jollof rice? I said, No. I combined it with stuff. I love Italian food. And I combined it. And when I do stuff like that, I feel like I'm representing my people showing that West Africa is elevated and elegant. And that I feel like in terms of culturally putting West Africa on the map foodwise okra, cassava, roast beef wherever it is. That's that's what I'm very proud of.

Jimi Famurewa  
Just to hear you talking there about the TV work kind of liberating you as an artist in some ways and the fact that you're literally recording in this space that you've cultivated for yourself, that is your own home, considering what you've what you've come from what you've been through what you've done so far. It feels really powerful. And I was thinking about music and grime, especially as being such a like vivid, unapologetic reflection of duality, mixed homes, like kind of different cultures kind of coming together. I wondered if in the same way that you can through food that music is an outlet for that kind of sense of yourself?

Big Zuu  
Yeah. 1,000,000% even before I got into telly I always made music that was reflective of me and who I am and what I believed in. I was a youth worker before I became a musician. And I said I'm going to make music to empower young people. Yeah. And for now more than ever, with the right steps. I can make something that really gives a snapshot into what's going on in a world right now. Yeah, I'm excited to see what comes next.

Jimi Famurewa  
Listen so am I. Big Zuu every time we speak I absolutely love it man. Thank you for letting us in. Thank you for giving us that tip if we're ever choking on a fishbone. Thank you for your time and can't wait to see what you do next. I don't know if it's possible to listen to him talk without having like a big grin on your face. He's so like exuberant, ebullient, honest, he's so himself, all the different parts of him and where he's come from. But what I really loved about that was how deep he got, how honest he was about his roots like interaction with different sides of his family and coming to the UK and the sort of slight chaos of of living in that situation where you know, he's living in this giant mansion with other refugee children. It was just such a joy to listen to him really love that. So that's it for this particular episode of Where's Home Really? with me Jimi Famurewa. Join me again next time for another deep dive into some unique stories from some very special guests who have their own personal interpretations of what home really means to them. And why not follow Where's Home Really? on your favourite podcast platform. We'd love to hear your thoughts. So pop us a comment or leave a review. From Podimo and Listen, this has been Where's Home Really? hosted by me, Jimi Famurewa we're the producers are Tayo Popoola and Aidan Judd, the executive producers for Podimo are Jake Chudnow and Matt White, and for Listen it's Kellie Redmond.